Tuesday, May 08, 2007

Rationing, subsidies, and other economic problems

‎“How much money do you think Iran makes off of oil sales?” Keivan asked me. ‎

‎“I don’t know… $16 billion?”‎

‎“Actually, $40 billion. ‎They spend $16 billion on gasoline subsidies.”‎

‎“That’s a lot.”‎

The thing is, the proposed rationing idea sucks. ‎

In the rationing card scheme, each car receives a rationing card. This means that ‎owning more cars means receiving more subsidized petrol, not less. It’s a bad idea all ‎around. There is no reward for real conservation. It simply continues to reward the ‎wiley and the wealthy. The wealthy because they have more cars and cars that get ‎better mileage and the wiley because buying up old gas-guzzling paykans means ‎getting more cheap gasoline.‎

Iran does need price reform. Rationing, however, is a recipe for disaster. Instead, the ‎price should go up, contracts should be renegotiated, and salaries should also increase. ‎
The price of gas will make everything more expensive. The price of doing nothing, ‎however, increases every year.‎

That said, I cannot believe that the card will go into effect this year. There is still ‎hearty debate in Iran’s parliament and there is fear of disrupting the economy further ‎right now.‎

References:‎

Iranian Energy Subsidies

If you want to read lots and lots about energy policy click ‎here: Sacrificing Our Children to the 'Corn God'‎

Intelligent Analysis ‎about Iran

59 comments:

mimi said...

i LOVE YOUR BLOG, EVERYBODY SHOULD READ IT

VinceP1974 said...

Is this blog written from inside or outside Iran?

Can a question to the writers have a potential of placing them in harm? If so, I won't ask my question (which isn't that sensitive a question, but i dont want to be doing things that may be harmful without checking boundaries)

Mimi said...

very good blog about Iran!! best informations than from any other international newspapers !! first class !! bravo !!

ET said...

Mimi, Thanks. VinceP, the blog is written from inside Iran. If you are worried about your question, email it to us.

VinceP1974 said...

I cant find a link to email you. I'm sure it's staring me at the face.

ET said...

responses AT gmail.com

amir said...

your blog is filtered!!

ET said...

Amir, what isp are you using?

Proconsul said...

The mechanics of the rationing system sound complicated, but wouldn't it make more sense to hand out cards to each *driver,* not to each *car?* That way:
1) You wouldn't be subsidizing people for owning more cars;
2) People too poor to own cars could at least still get the subsidy; and
3) You'd get some quick & dirty wealth redistribution as people with big cars or lots of cars buy gas from poor folks with small cars or no cars.

Chris said...

I don't know what the average commute is in Iran, but I guess it better be about 15 miles round trip. The rationing system sounds insane!!

How much would gas rise to if subsidies were removed?

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ET said...

Anonymous, I deleted your comment. You know that we are posting from Iran. If you would like to re-submit your comment, do so, but show a little bit of restraint.

VinceP1974 said...

In regards to the giant ATM Machine that is the oil deposits that fate would place beneath the nations of the Middle East , that the two pillars of Islamic states.. Sunni Saudi Arabia and Shiite Iran .. have done nothing at all with that money other than to promote the Political/Military-side of Islam , instead of using all that weath the nations of the West gave to them to develop thier nations and peoples, the Islamic governments instead develop war and conquest and subversion.

Does Islam inevitably cause those in control to divert all resources to Jihad and war and not try to build up their own people and lands?

I hate to sound as if that is the only expression of Islam because I know it isn't... however, it seems that once those who adhere to the political designs of islam get their hands on resources those resources are dutifully put to the use of Islamic doctrine.

Am I wrong?

I'm beginning to think that the relatively queit people of islam vs the rest that characterized the 20th Century before 1979 is really the exception and that the current generation has been lulled into a false sense of regarding Islam as somethihng that isn't a threat to the peace of teh world.

VinceP1974 said...

(oh.. my last statement is something completely different in my mind than the question I had talked about ealier but never emailed... i haven't had time yet)

amir said...

i'm connecting from KNTU university,tehran

Abdel Nur said...

Very interesting blog. I'll read it frequently. Where do you live? Wich iranian city?
I link you in my italian blog, and I would like to repropose some of your posts. Good work, and Peace be upon you.

ET said...

Vince, It isn't exactly true that oil money is not spent on the public in Iran.

Governing is a moderating force. Garbage needs to be picked up, streets need to be cleaned, buses need to run, hospitals are required... All of these activities receive public funds in Iran.

Money is misspent. Corruption happens. But that is not the only story in Iran.

Amir, weird that the university is blocking this site. Pars Online and Datak do not.

Thanks for letting me know.

VinceP1974 said...

Thanks ET.

Of course I dont mean to say 100% of all money is being diverted to hostile things... of course a level of civil adminstration is done.. that's just part of human society.. but you do wonder when Iran Govt is letting thier oil production facilities fade away.. that they actually have to import gasoline.

It's as if your govt doesnt believe there's a future that they have to invest in things today to provide for. Its like a person who thinks he's going to die this year, so he stops funding his retirement.

That has to be disturbing.. the Islamic Republic Govt is doing nothing (and doing nothing by their own choice) to invest in Iran's future.

I wonder what they devote more time to.. making sure national natural resources can continue to provide for the advancement of Persian society, or establishing Hezbellah all over the world to act as human ICBMs.

Anonymous said...

To vincep, just for your information, iran has not started any wars, nor conquered or subverted any countries or nations in the past 250 years....we can't really say the same about the US. I think what is happening in the middle east today, is much more complicated than the simplistic notions of "jihad" and evil vs. good, that the media in the "western" world tries to portray.
I should add that I do agree with you, that the government in Iran is not doing much to invest in iran's future, but not exactly for the reasons you state...

ET said...

proconsul, I believe any rationing at all will lead to corruption. Better just to raise the price overall. It will be hard to do... but ultimately, it will benefit the country.

Chris: I have no idea how long the average commute is.

Vince: Part of the reason that Iran has such poor refinement capabilities has to do with sanctions. The other part is an undefined economic policy. Another part is the war with Iraq. (of course oil facilities were targeted). I don't think the reason has anything to do with Islam. After living here for awhile, I would say that most Iranians are not anticipating the end of the world.

VinceP1974 said...

Jihad is anything but simple.

And I dont think you can compare the current Islamic Republic to what Persia was before 1979.

The folks in charge are deranged religious fanatics , and by no means should anyone expect them to behave as past regimes have.

Iran is very much engaged in war.. againt its people, against the Jews, against Americans (America stands in the way of thier dream of a global Islamic state).

you cannot deny this.

And puhlease.. the Media is doing everything it can to obfuscate the religious component of what the US is facing in Iran.. and the Media is doing everything it can to undermine the US military.

Almost every journalist is against any action against Iran.. so to twist reality and claim that the media is leading the charge for the US to go to war is also not reality.

What reasons do you believe there are for the neglict of the resources of Iran by the gov't?

VinceP1974 said...

et: I dont believe the majority of Iranians support the stated goal of the govt.. that is why I always try to be specific about who I am talking about. I always say the Govt.

Saddam Hussien destroyed Kuwait's oil fields as well, but I think they were all back in service within a year.

If Iran can devote so much resource to something they dont know how to do yet (build nuclear bombs) and also willing accept the international panic that such a program is causing, then I'm pretty sure they could easily restore the oil capacity if they chose to.

christopher said...

kuwaiti oil production was brought back with american $$$. so obviously, that's not a card in the hand of the IRI.

that said, oil profit and production is really a marriage of indigenous resources and western technology. people can talk about the exploitation of resources by rich countries (which does exist), but without their know-how nobody is getting nothing.

so sanctions (or self-imposed isolation) logically = stunted development.

VinceP1974 said...

christopher: Iran does not lack buyers for its oil.. i'm sure any number of nations would be thrilled to get those contracts.. its just that Iran hasn't made the effort to sustain the drills. I cant speak for any of the recent sanctions..the sanctions in the past were unilateral US sanctions.. no other nation was bound to them.

So I say it was self-imposed neglect.. (in fact that's what I've said consistantly.. so im not sure we even disagree)

If it's neglect , like I think it is.. then why? It's like free money... that makes me wonder, does the future not matter to the Islamic Republic's govt... and if the future doesn't matter.. what does that mean for the present?

Anonymous said...

To Vince:

“but you do wonder when Iran Govt is letting thier oil production facilities fade away.. that they actually have to import gasoline.”

The reason why refined oil is imported is that all Iranian refineries were targeted and destroyed by Saddam Hussain during the war he started. It has nothing to do with oil fields which are in activity and produce Brut oil.

Refineries are being rebuilt but Such big projects progress rather slowly in Iran, and The animosity of the international community against Iran is not Helping.
As an example, The new Tehran International airport project started during the last years of the reign of the Shah, and was finished just recently.
The Nuclear facility in Natanz also took more than 18 years to built.

“I wonder what they devote more time to.. making sure national natural resources can continue to provide for the advancement of Persian society, or establishing Hezbellah all over the world to act as human ICBMs.”

Let’s not forget that Hezbollah is a movement which was established within the Lebanese society after the Israeli army entered that foreign territory and initiated a civil war in Lebanon which lasted 15 years.
Just in the recent war last summer, those who spread a million cluster bombs in the Lebanese territory despite a cease fire and against international law were Americans and Israelis.
And the plan for developing Civil Nuclear energy is for avoiding any surprise because of the shortage of natural resources. By the way, this plan had been assessed during the reign of the Shah by the Americans who recommended the establishment of Civil Nuclear energy in Iran.

“The folks in charge are deranged religious fanatics , and by no means should anyone expect them to behave as past regimes have.”

As I always said the American administration now and the republicans in general are what I call Ayatollahs with suit and ties.
They are as fanatic as one can be in a ao called bi-party democracy.

VinceP1974 said...

>Let’s not forget that Hezbollah is a movement which was established within the Lebanese society after the Israeli army entered that foreign territory and initiated a civil war in Lebanon which lasted 15 years.

That is factually incorrect.

It was the lovely PLO's expulsion from Jordan and Lebanon's letting them go there that started the Civil War.

The PLO used that land base (as it uses every sanctuary it was in) to launch attacks on Israel. After years of having their Northern cities being shelled, Israel invaded Southern Lebanon in self-defense.

How you can even try to blame the horrible Muslim-caused Civil War in Leb on Israel is outrageous.

>Just in the recent war last summer, those who spread a million cluster bombs in the Lebanese territory despite a cease fire and against international law were Americans and Israelis.

Oh well.. Perhaps Hezbellah shouldn't have started that war and perhaps Hezbellah shouldnt have launched missiles at Israel from Missle launchers that were inside people's homes.

And lets not forget which Govt is the Master of Hezbellah.. the Govt of Iran.

How you can twist that around and blame the victims of Iran/Hezbellah defies all deceny. Hezbellah FORCED Israel to attack near civilians. Hezbellah uses the dignity of the Jews and the concern for human rights that Jews have against them as a weapon.And you support that.


>As I always said the American administration now and the republicans in general are what I call Ayatollahs with suit and ties.
They are as fanatic as one can be in a ao called bi-party democracy.

No, that is just convienent Leftist drivel to make the Left feel good about themselves when they go around spreading lies about everything they disagree with. The Left and Islamic Republic's Govt fit very well together, don't they?

ET: My harsh criticism is not directed at Iranians in general, but those Khomenists who are supporters of the Jihad.

Anonymous said...

What is factually incorrect?

That Hezbollah is a internal resistance movement to the invasion of Northern Lebanon by Israeli Army?

That This illegal intrusion ignited the civil war in Lebanon?

You have your facts wrong.

The bombardment of PLO refugee camps by Israel was presented as a response to an attempted assassination of Israel's ambassador in London by PLO, While Menahim begin withheld the information that PLO did not participate in that attempt.

And It’s amazing how you can dare justifying the spread of a million cluster bombs during a cease fire after having lost the war. I’m not even talking about the fact that it was done in civil areas.

Hezbollah didn’t start the war. Actually the medias are so biased that during that short confrontation, most of them didn’t mention that the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers happened inside the Lebanese territory, still occupied by Israeli Army.

And you know better than me that Republicans and some democrats are Ayatollahs in suit and tie and if they could they will impose the same rules to the population than IRI.

VinceP1974 said...

>What is factually incorrect?

You mixed truth with untruth.. that renders the statement untrue.

Lets review the portion of your text that I quoted

++ = you said

++Let’s not forget that Hezbollah is a movement which was established within the Lebanese society after the Israeli army entered that foreign territory

That is true

++and initiated a civil war in Lebanon which lasted 15 years.

That is the untruth

When you mix truth with untruth that corrupts your entire message and since you've done this, I'm not even going to bother play your game with you. I have not read the rest of your message and have no intention in assisting in your propaganda effort.

Anonymous said...

Vince,
If you do not like truthful answers which do not correspond to your preconceived ideas, why do you ask questions?

In other words if you can't hear the truth don't ask for it.

I'm not supporting IRI, but one has to be fair and avoid using double standards in argumentation.

as for the Lebanese civil war, it is important to notice that before the occupation of northern Lebanon by Israel, there was no civil war and Lebanon was called the Swiss of Middle East.

After the invasion by Israel, the civil war started.
And It had nothing to do with a Muslim war. In fact, the intervention of Syria was asked by Christians of Lebanon. What happened after is a different story...
But even now there is a coalition between the Hezbollah and The Christian group of General Aoun.

Stop watching Fox news, that's feeding you with biased and wrong information. I have to say truthful and independent information is rarely available in the other channels either.

If an honnest American wants factual information,
She/he should erase her/his mind of all the propaganda based on American interest and patriotism, and then look for independant sources...
Not an easy task,
Good luck....

VinceP1974 said...

The Civil War in Lebanon started in 1975.


1975

What happened in 1975?


Here is one account:

The Opening Rounds, 1975

By the mid 1970s PLO conduct in Lebanon had reached incredible lows. Arafat's realm within Lebanon became known as the Fakhani Republic named after the district of Beirut where he had set up his headquarters, in large areas of Lebanon his authority was supreme. In a flagrant violation of Lebanese sovereignty the PLO set up road blocks, issued passes and travel documents, took over entire buildings, operated extortion rackets, protected criminals fleeing Lebanese justice, stole cars, expelled residents, and opened unlicensed shops, bars, and nightclubs. They even raped and murdered at will. Despite repeated pleas from his old guard and from Lebanese Christian leaders, Arafat did nothing to control the behaviour of his Palestinians.

I suggest you read a book "Because They Hate: A Survivor of Islamic Terror Warns America " by Brigette Gabriel. Her book is about her life growing up as a Lebanese Christian in the barbaric conditions the Muslims (particularly those wonderful Palestinians) imposed on the country.

I dont know who you expect to believe your lie that the Civil War in the 1980s but it wont work for me. The truth is too obvious for you to hide it.

Arabs started the war in Lebabanon. They started it so that they could establish a base from which to attack Israel.... this is about the only pattern that occurs with the Palestinians with any consistantcy. Nothing stands in the way of thier Jihad. The Kingdom of Jordan didn't. The Democracy of lebanon didn't. The generiousity of israel by granting them autonomy didn't.

Nothing will... Islam must always get back its land that was once Dar Al islam, right?

Anonymous said...

Vince,

Ok, maybe I got carried away a little bit.
The Lebanese civil war started on April 1975, was halted for a short while in 1976 and resumed and then intensified with the first Israeli intervention in 1978, and any peaceful conclusion of the civil war suffered a major set back with the occupation of Lebanon by Israel.

Now as an Iranian, whoever occupies that land between the Mediterranean sea and the Jordan River is not important to me, as long as there is peaceful coexistence and that people’s problems does not run over the whole region.

As a human being if I see the human group A chasing the human group B from where they have been living for a longtime, no matter what is group A, I feel the injustice the group B has been submitted to.

The reason why those Palestinians reached a low was because they have been chased from where they lived for a longtime and of course this dislocation had spread throughout the region and created other problems.

Palestinians are not only Muslims and those who represented PLO in the US in France and elsewhere in the west were fro the most part Christian Palestinian during Arafat presidency.

Your rhetoric coincides strangely with the one of Brigette Gabriel whom I have already heard in a conference. Words like “Islamic Terror”, “Jihad” , “Arab” among others show rather a hatred for Islam, and do not give you credibility in discussing such matters.

Coming from Brigette Gabriel it won’t be surprising for me, for she is from the maronit-dominated Christian Militia which was formed under early impulses from European fascism.

I don’t think people like her who cultivate hatred should be cited as a moral compass.

Here is an excerpt from an article by a westerner which summarizes what the majority of Iranians think of the present situation from a historical viewpoint :

“IRAN is a remarkable country in that, apart from inevitable border conflicts, it has not seriously invaded any other country for the best part of 2 millennia. Conversely, over the last 14 centuries it has been invaded by Arabs (641 AD), Mongols (1258), Portuguese in coastal areas (16th – 17th centuries), Russians (from 1722 onwards), Afghans (18th century), Russia (19th century), and Russia and Britain (20th centuries). The US got into the act with the 1953 US-backed overthrow of democratic rule (after Prime Minister Mossadegh's attempted nationalization of Anglo-Iranian oil), the installation of the Shah's dictatorship, the US-backed Iraqi invasion in 1980 and the subsequent 1980-1988 Iran–Iraq war that killed millions of Iranians (1.5 million war dead; 1980-1988 excess deaths in the country as a whole total 2.1 million).
Now Iran faces the horrendous prospect of a possibly TERMINAL nuclear cataclysm as the US backs Baluchi terrorists in South Eastern Iran, advances its nuclear-armed aircraft carriers into positions off the Iranian coast and the Americans and Israelis advance their virulent, war-mongering anti-Iranian rhetoric. Thus simple Google Searches for the utterly obscene phrases "nuke Iran" and "attack Iran" today yield 132,000 and 695,000 URLs, respectively. Reports from authoritative media such as the BBC, The New Statesman and Global Research indicate that the Americans and Israelis may be ready to unleash NUCLEAR war on this peaceful, remote, non-aggressive country of 71 million people.”

http://www.payvand.com/
news/07/may/1180.html

VinceP1974 said...

My my what a white-wash of the Lebanese Civil War.

The PLO/Muslims made the country a disaster and yet you still find room to blame Israel which was merely responding to continuious attack.

Name me one Muslim country that HASN'T kicked out the PLO for making their country even worse than it was before their presense.


As far as the poor Islamic Republic Government goes.. maybe you can explain this wonderful display shown in the video...

atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2007/05/iran_on_death_m.html

Your evil Satanic govt is bringing death to you people. The conflict they are begging for no one wants.


I know the statements your government makes. I will not be so easily lied to by those who want to pull the wool over my eyes


Iran’s elite Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, Major General Yahya Rahim Safavi, said on state television, “The final goal of the [1979] revolution is to create global Islamic rule and a regime of law to be led by the Imam Mahdi”. “God willing, the 21st century will see the defeat of the U.S. and the Zionists, and the victory of freedom-seeking nations of the world”.

The [Iranians] President’s chief strategist, Hassan Abbassi, has come up with a war plan based on the premise that “Britain is the mother of all evils” – the evils being America, Australia, New Zealand, Israel, the Gulf states and even Canada, all of whom are the malign progeny of the British Empire. “We have a strategy drawn up for the destruction of Anglo-Saxon civilization,” says Mr Abbassi. “There are 29 sensitive sites in the U.S. and in the West. We have already spied on these sites and we know how we are going to attack them… Once we have defeated the Anglo-Saxons the rest will run for cover.”


And I know what your sick religion says will happen when you think your Mahdi shows up

"al-Mahdi will receive a pledge of allegiance as a caliph for Muslims. He will lead Muslims in many battles of jihad. His reign will be a caliphate that follows the guidance of the Prophet. Many battles will ensue between Muslims and the disbelievers during the Mahdi’s reign"

Harun Yahya said
The Mahdi will invade all the places between East and West.

Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until the son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends amongst you as a just ruler, he will break the cross, kill the pigs, and abolish the Jizya tax. Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept it (as charitable gifts).
Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri (d. 1368) from The Reliance of the Traveller, the classic Shafi manual of Islamic jurisprudence states:

"... the time and the place for [the poll tax] is before the final descent of Jesus (upon whom be peace). After his final coming, nothing but Islam will be accepted from them, for taking the poll tax is only effective until Jesus' descent (upon him and our Prophet be peace) ..."
Ayatollah Ibrahim Amini clearly articulates this vision:

The Mahdi will offer the religion of Islam to the Jews and Christians; if they accept it they will be spared, otherwise they will be killed.


So tell me ... is all that a myth? I dont believe that those things will be achieved,, but i do believe that the fanatics who run your country and the terrorists they deployed all over the world will try to make it happen.

VinceP1974 said...

This was the link that was cut off

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2007/05/iran_on_death_m.html

VinceP1974 said...

I'll try that again.

Anonymous said...

Wow, I have never felt through the screen of a computer so much hatred coming towards me. Gabriel has definitely done a good job in brainwashing you.

I blame nobody. But I look at the source of the problem, and the source was the displacement of those Palestinians from their land.

As for what the Iranian government says, you have the same idiot religious right groups who are actually running the most powerful country of the world with real weapons of mass destruction and a stockpile of nuclear weapons that no other country has ever had. Those religious right groups who have the same theory about the return of the messiah, belong to a country which has already used Nuclear weapons.

As for the rhetoric from one side or the other, whether they are part of a mythology or not, they are equivalent and they respond to a mutual verbal provocation.

If no one wants the conflict they are begging for, then we are safe, for the nation of Iran will never start a war.

I don’t know if you are a Christian or not?!! But The main message of Jesus Christ was Love, so if you are a Christian the message of hate that you are spreading is certainly Antagonistic to what you pretend to be.

You need to chill out and take a glass of wine, maybe that will help you to see the truth…

Anonymous said...

by the way, I don't see what brings you to this blog.
You seem to have all the answers, so what's the point of reading such blogs or pretending to ask questions.
Your preconceived ideas are so strongly implemented that your attempt of presenting yourself as someone open to learn more is just a hypocrisy show off.

VinceP1974 said...

How can quoting your own government and your own religious teachings be hate?

After all.. are they threatening you?

Or are they threatening me?

Tell me , how should I respond to them?

Anonymous said...

I don’t think that you read my posts thoroughly.
As I said, what you call teachings of my religion, is also advanced by the religious right groups as the teachings of your religion too.

You have to respond intelligently. Where there is intelligence, fear is not.
There are more than 30 mythologies from different ancient civilizations that say the same stories about the destiny of the world. And I’m not saying this because I am personally interested in those sort of things, but I have seen 3 different TV shows on this topic in your own western TV channels during the last 12 month.

Now let’s take the two possibilities ;

-If there is such a thing as “the destiny of the world “ we can have no influence in the outcome of that, so we don’t need to worry about anything.

-If these mythologies are simply a way humans had found to taming their fears of the unknown, then we’d better not give way to preventive (or preemptive) actions to avoid something which probably will not happen in the first place, but which may take shape if we constantly cultivate “the fear that it is about to happen, so let’s prevent it”.

VinceP1974 said...

>I don’t think that you read my posts thoroughly.
As I said, what you call teachings of my religion, is also advanced by the religious right groups as the teachings of your religion too.

No it's not. In Christian and Jewish End Times, there is a time of trouble, during which they are given to the Beast to be slaughtered (the true meaning of the word martyred).

As I just quoted, according to Muslims,.. Muslims get to go on a global war of conquest against all others.

Gee. in a way the religious do teach the same thing. Jews/Christians believe they will be slaughtered, Muslims believe they will be doing the killing.

Hmmm..

In the end though, it is the God of Israel himself who defeats his enemies. Unlike Muslims, who , again, are the ones who will be actively killing Non-Muslims.

You wont find one Christian who believes a Christian will kill anyone during the End Time.



>You have to respond intelligently. Where there is intelligence, fear is not.
There are more than 30 mythologies from different ancient civilizations that say the same stories about the destiny of the world. And I’m not saying this because I am personally interested in those sort of things, but I have seen 3 different TV shows on this topic in your own western TV channels during the last 12 month.
>Now let’s take the two possibilities ;
>-If there is such a thing as “the destiny of the world “ we can have no influence in the outcome of that, so we don’t need to worry about anything.
>-If these mythologies are simply a way humans had found to taming their fears of the unknown, then we’d better not give way to preventive (or preemptive) actions to avoid something which probably will not happen in the first place, but which may take shape if we constantly cultivate “the fear that it is about to happen, so let’s prevent it”.


I already addressed this. Please , if you want to me speak intelligently, then you must read intelligently.

This is what I said:

>"So tell me ... is all that a myth? I dont believe that those things will be achieved,, but i do believe that the fanatics who run your country and the terrorists they deployed all over the world will try to make it happen. "

My question about myth wasn't about your view of the future.

My question was... are these the things Muslims believe?

Are the threats I copied from the Iranian govt real threats?

in other words... I didn't make that stuff up.

Your govt is preparing for the Mahdi. I could care less if there is a such a person or not... apparently your govt thinks there will be.. so are they going to then behave as the other stuff I quoted demands they behave?

Other religions dont apply.

I await your intelligent answer.

-
THESE are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph.

VinceP1974 said...

Someone did a study of the Islamic view and the Biblical view of the End Time.

Notice how the islamic view is basically fullfilling the actions of the Biblical Satan. The more I learned about Islam over the years makes me come to believe that perhaps Mohemmed was right when he said to his wife that in the cave that one day, that a DEMON did possess him and force him to recite.

After all... Why would Muslims celebrate Death as so many of them say they do if they didn't worship the god of death.

Why does the God of Israel say that Satan himself will attempt to kill the Jews at the End Time and Islam happily proclaims


"The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews."




Bible: The Antichrist is an unparalleled political, military and religious leader that will that emerge in the last-days.
Islam: The Mahdi is an unparalleled political, military and religious leader that will emerge in the last-days.

Bible: the False Prophet is a secondary prominent figure that will emerge in the last-days who will support the Antichrist.
Islam: the Muslim Jesus is a secondary prominent figure that will emerge in the last-days to support the Mahdi.

Bible: The Antichrist and the False Prophet together will have a powerful army that will do great damage to the earth in an effort to subdue every nation and dominate the World.
Islam: The Mahdi and the Muslim Jesus will have a powerful army that will attempt to control every nation of the earth and dominate the World.

Bible: The False Prophet is described essentially as a dragon in lamb’s clothing.
Islam: The Muslim Jesus literally comes bearing the name of the one that the world knows as “The Lamb of God: Jesus Christ.” Yet the Muslim Jesus comes to murder all those who do not submit to Islam.

Bible: The Antichrist and the False Prophet establish a New World Order.
Islam: The Mahdi and the Muslim Jesus establish a New World Order.

Bible: The Antichrist and the False Prophet institute new laws for the whole earth.
Islam: The Mahdi and the Muslim Jesus institute Islamic law all over the earth.

Bible: The Antichrist is said to “change the times.”
Islam: It is quite certain that if the Mahdi established Islam all over the earth, he would discontinue the use of Saturday and Sunday as the weekend or days of rest but rather Friday, the holy day of Islam. Also, he would most certainly eliminate the Gregorian calendar (A.D.), and replace it with the Islamic calendar (A. H.) as is used in every Islamic country.

Bible: The Antichrist and the False Prophet will both be powerful religious leaders who will attempt to institute a universal world religion.
Islam: The Mahdi and the Muslim Jesus will institute Islam as the only religion in the earth.

Bible: The Antichrist and the False Prophet will execute anyone who does not submit to their world religion.
Islam: Likewise, the Mahdi and the Muslim Jesus will execute anyone who does not submit to Islam.

Bible: The Antichrist and the False Prophet will specifically use beheading as the primary means of execution for non-conformists.
Islam: The Mahdi and the Muslim Jesus will use the Islamic practice of beheading for executions.

Bible: The Antichrist and the False Prophet will have a specific agenda to kill as many Jews as possible.
Islam: The Mahdi and the Muslim Jesus will kill as many Jews as is possible until only a few are left hiding behind rocks and trees.

Bible: The Antichrist and the False Prophet will attack to conquer and seize Jerusalem.
Islam: The Mahdi and the Muslim Jesus will attack to re-conquer and seize Jerusalem for Islam.

Bible: The Antichrist will set himself up in the Jewish temple as his seat of authority.
Islam: The Mahdi will establish the Islamic Caliphate from Jerusalem.

Bible: The False Prophet is said to do many miracles to deceive as many as possible into supporting the Antichrist.
Islam: The Mahdi himself is said to control the weather and the crops. His face is said to glow. We can also assume that since Jesus is viewed as having been empowered by Allah to work miracles when he was here on earth the first time, he will most likely be expected to continue to do so when he returns.

Bible: The Antichrist is described as riding on a white horse in the Book of Revelation
Islam: The Mahdi is described as riding on a white horse (ironically from the same verse).

Bible: The Antichrist is said to make a peace treaty with Israel for seven years.
Islam: The Mahdi is said to make a peace treaty through a Jew (specifically a Levite) for exactly seven years.

Bible: Jesus the Jewish Messiah will return to defend the Jews in Israel from a military attack from a vast coalition of nations led by the Antichrist and the False Prophet.
Islam: The Dajjal, the Islamic Antichrist will gain a great Jewish following and claim to be Jesus Christ and fight against the Mahdi and the Muslim Jesus.

Bible: The antichrist spirit specifically denies the most unique and central doctrines of Christianity, namely the trinity, the incarnation and the substitutionary death of Jesus on the cross.
Islam: Islam doctrinally and spiritually specifically denies the most unique and central doctrines of Christianity, namely the trinity, the incarnation and the substitutionary death of Jesus on the cross.

Bible: The primary warning of Jesus and the Apostle Paul was to warn Christians of the abundance of deceit and deception in the last-days.
Islam: Islam is perhaps the only religion in the earth that practices deceit as one of its tools to assist its own ascendancy. It actually has a specific doctrine which allows and even calls for deception to be used to achieve its desired end.

Bible: The specific nations pictured in the Bible as being part of the final empire of the Antichrist are all Islamic nations.
Islam: All Muslims are commanded to give their allegiance to The Mahdi as the final Caliph and Imam (leader) of Islam.

Bible: From the Bible and History we learn that the final Antichrist empire will be a revived version of the Empire that succeeds the Roman Empire
Islam: The Empire that succeeded the Roman/Byzantine Empire was the Islamic Ottoman Empire

Bible: When Antichrist emerges, there will already be some form of system in place that will be poised to receive him as a Savior and to give allegiance to him.
Islam: is already the second largest religion and will at present growth rates become the largest religion within a few decades. Islam is awaiting the coming of the Mahdi with a universal anticipation.

Anonymous said...

Your so pathetic.
I think you need to see a psychiatrist.

Your Christianity has nothing to do with the words of Christ.

God saves us if the US is run behind the scene by crazies like you.

You say you don't want war but every single word in your mouth shows a desire in engaging in a war before it has even started.

You are hatred from hair to toe. I do not envy you.

May god come to your help.

VinceP1974 said...

Typical response, Muslim. Can't answer my questions.. you react in anger.

Too bad I dont have an embassy you can burn down.

Don Liebich said...

ET: Thanks for our thoughts on Iranian women pushing the envelop. As the women in our group got more comfortable they were more willing to have "bad hijab". I am not sure that Iranian women need a lot of help from American women. As our guide said; "The young Iranian female population is the regime's worst nightmare. They are like a compressed spring that is ready to explode in their faces." I would have responded sooner but your sight seems to be on the regimes bad list and wouldn't work in Iran. Keep up the good work. This too will pass.

Anonymous said...

As I've already said you have your answers and no intelligent thought will touch you. You're a lost soul. May god have pity on you.

You will not budge from your wrong preconceived ideas.

So move on and do not poison this blog, for you don't have any questions, you just want to propagate your sick ideas.

So Please do not post anything here anymore.
Go to your necon friendly sites,there are thousands out there on the web.

VinceP1974 said...

Anon:

Why dont you tell us about yourself?

The vibe I get is that you're somewhat militant. I get a heavy sense of oppression in the way you type.

Btw.. this happened today.. are you going to blame Israel for it?

Major Gun Battle Rips Palestinian Camp in Lebanon

Lebanese tanks pounded shells at a militant group's headquarters in a Palestinian refugee camp next to the northern city of Tripoli on Sunday afternoon after hours of clashes that left 13 soldiers and several militants dead, along with dozens of wounded.

VinceP1974 said...

Oh I should read more of the story before responding..

"Security officials said 19 soldiers and 14 police officers were injured in the fighting, the worst violence to hit the northern city in two decades, and hundreds of Lebanese citizens could be seen applauding at the army as it shot into the refugee camp."

What kind of crazy society do Muslims develop into? Have you ever heard of crowds of people APPLAUDING at military action that is unfolding right before their eyes in which people are dying.

Where is the humanity?

Btw: I'll have to accept that the Muslim beliefs about the Mahdi I pasted are accurate since no one has told me I'm wrong.

That's why I'm on this blog.. I'm hoping that people DON'T believe that but so far there is no evidence of that.

Anonymous said...

You're dead wrong about me.
I have never set s foot in a mosque.

But like most Iranian I will defend the Nation of Iran if attacked, regardless of the regime governing Iran.

During the Iraq-Iran War, the whole team of fighting jet pilots who had left the country because of their allegiance to the shah, returned back to Iran to defend their country.

Their heroic acts is well documented. They have set a record in the military annals.
They have succeeded in one flight to destroy more than 70 war Jets of Saddam Hussein.

There is a well known question among American Psychologists when talking with their patients:

Do you want to be Right, or do you want to be Happy?

As far as you are concerned, I think from your writing it is clear that:
You'd rather be RIGHT AND DEAD, than HAPPY AND ALIVE.

VinceP1974 said...

>But like most Iranian I will defend the Nation of Iran if attacked, regardless of the regime governing Iran.

This is what baffles me.

No one wants to attack Iran. The Europeans are so against it, they're willing accept your crazy government getting nuclear bombs.

No American wants to attack Iran.

What you don't seem to recognize is that we in America see every day from Iran the rallies that say "Death to America". We read things like

“We have a strategy drawn up for the destruction of Anglo-Saxon civilization,” says Mr Abbassi. “There are 29 sensitive sites in the U.S. and in the West. We have already spied on these sites and we know how we are going to attack them… Once we have defeated the Anglo-Saxons the rest will run for cover.”

You never seem to address the issue as to why Iran might be attacked. Is Iran under threat because Iran is innocent and has done nothing to attract the suspicion of the world.

Its statemetns by your own govt telling us that Iran intends to DESTROY the United States.

Your President is standing in front of a picture like this:

US broken on the ground.. with Israel on the way

Full image of the graphic Iranian president stands in front of

Do you not see that any war that happens is a war that Iran starts?

Go ahead and fight for that lost cause. I dont know what you think you're going to gain from that.

Your govt thinks it will bring about the age of the Imam Mahdi.

is that our fault? They are only against the United States because obviously, there cannot be global Islamic rule if the United States is around.

Your country is the one provoking everything.

It's not my fault for being one of the few people in America who really understand what is going on there.

So in the face of everythifng your government is planning for, you accuse me of being for war.

I am not for war.. but neither am I for suicide.

Anonymous said...

>What you don't seem to >recognize is that we in >America see every day >from Iran the rallies >that say "Death to >America". We read things >like

They have been chanting Death to America for 28 years. If they wanted or could do something more it would have been done.

And if at least you watch your own TV channels, just couple month ago Diane Sawyer (ABC) was in Tehran and on the sidelines of a rally, talked with those who chant Death to America and was amazed at the hospitality towards an American woman, of those who even participate in these rallies.

And As I said before there is no difference between a government which talks about the coming of Mahdi or a government run behind the scene by those who talk about the Messiah and the end of times.

You may want to go and compare word by word and say no it’s different because one is saying go right and the other is saying go left, but in the end these are both two crazy bunch.

But the most dangerous of those crazy groups is the one which actually has a stockpile of Nuclear weapons and has a record of having used it before.

As for what the officials in Iran may say, if you look at the chronology of the events they have said such things in response to the war of words initiated by the US and Isreal.

VinceP1974 said...

>They have been chanting Death to America for 28 years. If they wanted or could do something more it would have been done.


That's way to look at it.

Another way to look at it is.. they have a long-term plan.. with several objectives to be met before the main goal can be pursued.

One goal included the brainwashing of new generations into the ideology of Jihad.

Another goal is the aquisition of the weapons required to defeat their enemy

Another goal is the training and dispersal of terrorists all over the world.

All of this takes time. And it's a smart stragety. Why would Iran provoke the United States too soon? Iran is waiting until it has the ability to actually inflict real harm otherwise, if they were to attack too soon, the United States would defeat them.

>And if at least you watch your own TV channels, just couple month ago Diane Sawyer (ABC) was in Tehran and on the sidelines of a rally, talked with those who chant Death to America and was amazed at the hospitality towards an American woman, of those who even participate in these rallies.

I dont watch TV. But I'm aware that idiot reporter was there.

I never said the people of Iran were raving maniacs. So it doesn't surprise me that she was greated with great hospitality.

I have never heard anything bad ever being said about the people of Iran. I know the people of Iran aren't hateful , mean people. It's a shame your governemtn has created a barrier between us.

>And As I said before there is no difference between a government which talks about the coming of Mahdi or a government run behind the scene by those who talk about the Messiah and the end of times.

I said before.. Muslims believe they need to take action to bring things about. Christians do not believe they have to do anything.

That's the basic truth. No Christian who believes the End Time is soon actualyl believes that anything he does can bring it about or postpone.

You cannot compare Islamic Mahdi beliefs with American or Christian ones.

>But the most dangerous of those crazy groups is the one which actually has a stockpile of Nuclear weapons and has a record of having used it before.

Yes.. we're so dangerous. We take risks for the sake of freedom and stablity.

I dont expect that the United States is going to survive this decade.. believe me. when we're gone, you'll be wishing we were back.

>As for what the officials in Iran may say, if you look at the chronology of the events they have said such things in response to the war of words initiated by the US and Isreal.

You are brainwashed, sadly. Like Israel has said anything against Iran. Tell me.. do you really believe in the lies you say.. or do you jsut say them to serve your masters?

Anonymous said...

I have no master but the truth.
On the hand, your master is what can feed your hatred.
I don’t think that even you believe what you say.
Your hypothetic pseudo-arguments will not hold one second in the face of the facts and an honest and unbiased analysis.
But of course a lobby group can built on lies and spread it’s venom through complaisant media supports.
What you say shows that you are in your bubble and you don’t want to know the world affaires and certainly not Iran.

You need to create this big enemy based on far fetched (im)possibilities and spill your hatred on it. It’s visceral.
As for the idiot reporter, I understand that showing a good image of those people does not fit your (Foxnews) agenda. That’s probably why you call her idiot.

As for taking risk for the sake of freedom!!!!
Who are you kidding?
You mean attacking a country based on lies, and based on your thirst of oil….
For what freedom is good when you are dead?

VinceP1974 said...

ok, dont answer my questions. waste of time.

VinceP1974 said...

oh it looks like the peaceful Palestinians in Lebanon are being attacked by the army of Lebanon because the Palestinians and Al Qaida are trying to bring down the govt .. So no doubt Hezbellah (your country's favorite group) is also involved behind teh scenes.

This is all being done to start another war with Israel.

Iran can get away with anything huh? Such a perfect terrorist-supporting state.

Ali Sanaei said...

Nice blog.
well done, keep it on ...

christopher said...

vince
friendly suggestion;
you really need a girlfriend.

Anonymous said...

are you nuts Christopher, poor girl friend...oh maybe it's Paul Wolfowitz who is posting under the cover of vincep1974,... , Poor girl friend anyway...

Sorry to disappoint you Vince, but here is what you have missed from;
www.moonofalabama.org

Annals of Short Memory:

Published on March 5, 2007 Seymour Hersh wrote:

American, European, and Arab officials I spoke to told me that the Siniora government and its allies had allowed some aid to end up in the hands of emerging Sunni radical groups in northern Lebanon, the Bekaa Valley, and around Palestinian refugee camps in the south.
[...]
Alastair Crooke, who spent nearly thirty years in MI6, [..} Crooke said that one Sunni extremist group, Fatah al-Islam, had splintered from its pro-Syrian parent group, Fatah al-Intifada, in the Nahr al-Bared refugee camp, in northern Lebanon. Its membership at the time was less than two hundred. “I was told that within twenty-four hours they were being offered weapons and money by people presenting themselves as representatives of the Lebanese government’s interests—presumably to take on Hezbollah,” Crooke said.

Now some unnamed Lebanon media see Syria behind violence.

The Lebanese media are in no doubt that Syria is to blame for clashes between security forces and Fatah al-Islam militants

Obviously this is a Siniora minority government and U.S. financed operation that gave birth to another "Al Qaeda" organization.

VinceP1974 said...

anom:

I know the mainstream view is that Fatah al Islam is against hezbellah.. but I disagree. I have no proof to back up what I think.. it's just a gut feeling.

VinceP1974 said...

There's one reason why Iran can even contemplate this.. and that is because the Left has weakened the fighting ability of the West.

www.theage.com.au/news/World/Iran-planning-strike-on-Europe-analyst/2007/05/23/1179601443913.html

Iran is attempting to draw up plans to strike targets in Europe and has reconnoitered European nuclear power stations, a security analyst told a meeting at Britain's parliament.

Claude Moniquet, president of the European Strategic Intelligence and Security Centre, a private think-tank in Brussels, said his organisation also had evidence Tehran has increased the number of its intelligence agents across Europe.

"We have serious signals that something is under preparation in Europe," Moniquet said. "Iranian intelligence is working extremely hard to prepare its people and to prepare actions."

The centre, which he said deals directly with European intelligence agencies, believes Iranian operatives have carried out "reconnaissance of targets in European cities, including nuclear power stations," Moniquet said. He mentioned no other specific targets.

Anonymous said...

Are you crazy?
The mainstream view?
That is not at all the mainstream view.
And what left? There is no left in the west.

It's all part of the propaganda against Iran to attack it.

When the plans of you and your alikes are exposed to the light of the truth, it becomes clear that your agenda has nothing to do with the truth.

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