Saturday, December 16, 2006

Holocaust Denial

I posted my concerns about the consequences of Tehran's Holocaust Denial conference at Mideast Youth which launched an unintended, and for me, disturbing discussion of genocide. It was from that discussion that I discovered the diary of one of the commenters, a German, Heimo. Here is a quote from his entry "Warnings about voting for me!"

Post from Heimo at Sting of the Unicorn
Note to Heimo: Get a blog that we can comment on!

Another word to the so called „holocaust discussion” in Ahmadinejads selected round of ‘enemys of Israel’ –

I had a discussion with my Iranian friend G.yesterday on telefone - & oof – when I at last mentioned this strange congress – he was so well informed & also he was so enthusiastic about the nice atmosphere there when in the end members of that congregation embraced each others & ‘there were even Jews invited (this was important for G. to tell me)& even Ahmadinejad embraced with ‘a Jew’ in the end –

He praised that on this congress could be openly discussed, what is forbidden here in our so called ‘free world’ & asked me why there is no free speech here.

I didn’t argue with this, but it just came in my mind: if there would be a congregation of child molesters who would argue whether it would be moral or immoral to have sexual connections with children – free speech – why not talk about it?

I tried to tell G. why especially here in Germany it is so important to not let the same spirit that did in our recent much evil ever happen again. – Words of agitation are also weapons & we know by recent history the lies, stories & agitations of the Nazi-people well enough. – Giving them platform, means giving them chance to spread their beguiling agitions again & there are stupid herd people ever present to listen to there arguments, where some truths, some half-trues & some wild exaggerations are mixed to a conclusion of lies. – It’s not only the words & arguments – it’s the spirit behind it that is so easy to regognize for us, but apparently not to him coming form a far-away culture, where all what had happened here is nothing but a far away tale (or fairytiale even)

14 comments:

Anonymous said...

If Germany is sensitive to discussing such issues , we are not.

Anonymous said...

Hmmm. Well, on the surface, there are reasons to allow people without fear or emotions to discuss what they think and believe to be true.

There was a time when I lived in a community that the majority, or the noisiest most opinionated believed that black Americans were not equal to whites. They had their reasons. I wasn't exactly persuaded by their logic as much as I was afraid of disagreeing and secondly by their sincerity of belief in the face they presented to me. So I went along so as not to cause trouble or feel threatened.

HOWEVER, this is the important point I wish to make about the conditions for such a conference, the environment. Is the quality of the educational system, fair enough, reasonable enough where people have learned to question and seek the truth for themselves. IF it isn't, then this kind of conference can be merely an extension of shadowy ill-defined forces in the background whose purpose is to control and blot out the truth.
Well, even in a totalitarian society not everyone is submissive and brainwashed. So another pilar of responsibility is upheld by the press reporting and questioning the organizers, to witness the way the program is carried out, and interview the participants, audience. All this contributes to a fair assessment of the results of such a conference.

the comment by anon. in the first position is interesting. Germany has become increasingly multiracial, multi cultural, multi class, multi religous society. There is still a freedom of speech there, within certain boundaries true. All these multi's are not hugging and kissing one another's diversity, yet ;-) The division of the classes are the most troubling, I think.

What can be said about Iran? How multi-cultural is it compared to Germany? How is the freedom of speech compared to Germany? What is the diversity of the world communities are represented in Iran?

And final question, What about the Bahai community denial?

Edo River rising

ET said...

Iran does not have freedom of speech.

Oh yeah, unless you beleve that it does and that they only imprison "Zionist spies."

Anonymous said...

THIS MUST BE TRULY OF THE SADDEST MOMENT OF MY (IRAN) COUNTRY WHERE, STONING MEN AND WOMEN IS PRACTICED AND DENYING THE TRUTH ABOUT HOLOCAUST IS WELCOMED BY BUNCH OF NAY SAYERS, WHO KNOWINGLY DENY SUCH A CRIME. DAVID DUKE IS AN EX CON!! JUST LIKE THE ESLAMIC LEADERS!! THEY WILL ALL PAY. JUST WAIT AND SEE.
DARIUSHAGHA

Anonymous said...

While freedom of speech generally, may not be enjoyed by Iranian citizens at this time. The very same thing can be said about most so-called "free" nations of the west. The "Holocaust Conference" recently held in Tehran, clearly highlighted this problem. The idea of "Holocaust Denial" is afterall a Zionist propaganda term with no validity whatsoever. This is the case since the "Holocaust" has never been factually proven. Questioning the "Holocaust" therefore has nothing to do with "antisemitism", but quite a bit to do with free speech and historical revision.


While it is customary for western nations to preach about freedom of speech and democracy, the reality is another story altogether. Zionist rule is now pervasive in most Western nations, hence it is not surprising that the subject of the "Holocaust" is not allowed to be discussed or critically analyzed in these nations. The hysterical propaganda of Zionist interests is therefore understandable when historians acutally uncover evidence that contradicts their version of what happened in Nazi work camps of the second world war.
Belief is one thing but historical fact is quite a different story, under no circumstances should the two be confused.


Our knowledge of history is dynamic not static. New and controversial information will always be emerging on accepted historical events. There is nothing wrong or sinister about this. On the contrary, what is wrong is the attempts to stamp out any and all investigation of the Holocaust by those serving the Zionist agenda. One person firmly established in the truth, does more good for the world, than millions blinded by their beliefs.

ET said...

Wow anonymous you are a good writer but a lousy thinker. "The Holocaust has not bee factually proven?" Since when?

"The Holocaust is Zionist propoganda?" What universe are you living in?

"Zionist rule is pervasive?" Oh yeah, and The Protocals of the Elders of Zion are, indeed, fact. (I am just joking for all of you humorless folks out there).

I wish I could be more reasonable and make light of your comments, but I cannot. All I can think of is the many men and women I met throughout my life who told me their own experiences in the concentration camps and showed me the tatoos on their arms. I think of my parents's friend who was among the liberators of the camps and still has nightmares because of what he saw. I think of my rabbi who was fifteen when he was liberated from the camps. I think of the woman whose baby died in her arms while they were hiding from the Nazis. I think of Anne Frank who would have made a great blogger. I thank god and my great-grandmothers that my family left eastern Europe at the turn of the century and, thus, allowed me to be born. I can even thank Iran that gave refuge to so many Polish Jews who escaped pogroms and persecution.

But you, anonymous, are a fool and the worst kind of fool

Anonymous said...

There is an interesting trick that is "sometimes" to drum/stir up interest in a topic.
First you have a topic, "the existence of gravity", let's say. Well just to get a guest on your show to tell us that, yes, there is gravity, is not going to get people tuning into your show from whatever other activity they are doing in their bedroom with their spouse late at night.
SO, you look for someone, anyone almost, who has declared under some condition or other, the more sensational the better, that Science has just recently proved, by some experiment in some location, that purports objectivity that "Gravity does not exist"!

So now go to some name institution of higher learning, invite a prof over and tell him he is going to explain the existence of gravity.
What that prof doesn't know, but soon will when he finishes his brif presentation, he he he he ,
that out walks a fully prepared guest to tell everyone that gravity does not exist. And he has the data to prove it!

You see you can find someone to oppose any idea, and when you give them equal time, to explain their ignorance with someone else that represents "the establishment" you have cleverly created a question in alot of people's mind about the existence of gravity.

Is this a good thing? You tell me.

Edo River rising

Anonymous said...

et, Edo river rising:


The "proof" of the Holocaust so far consists of discredited Soviet and Allied photo, "eyewitness", and "survivor" evidence. None of which has ever irrefutably established the Holocaust as historical fact. On the contrary, those who use this "evidence" as proof are in effect mistaking post-WWII propaganda for fact. The case for a Holocaust therefore remains to be proven except in the minds of Zionists and the hordes of "Holocaust Believers".

Hurling insults and ridicule at those who don't share your belief in the "Holocaust", is a common shortcoming of people completely blinded by their beliefs. Beliefs and facts, are rarely if ever, the same. On the other hand, the Zionist roots of the Holocaust narative is a fact, whether most people are aware of it or not! Unfortunately, Zionists and Holocaust believers generally, have little use for facts, or anything that disturbs their religious belief in the Holocaust. Being therefore hopelessly biased, such people, are not qualified to preach to others about what is, and what is not the truth!

There are at least two sides to every story in human history, and the "Holocaust" narative is no exception. While the world has long been made aware of the Zionist version of what occurred in Nazi concentration camps like Auschwitz, there is another side to this story, backed up by independently verifiable Nazi and non Nazi documents, and inmate testimony. This information has been deliberately suppressed, and censored, by the Zionist mass media. Hiding information that conflicts with widely held beliefs, is an all too common practice that harms all mankind.

While Zionist rule over western nations prevents free and open discourse of the other side of the Holocaust narative, the recent conference in Tehran provided a forum for just such discussions. Since it is obviously beyond your powers of comprehension to conceive of the Holocaust as anything but the most sacred, of sacred cows, the reality of this story, like many others in human history, is not necessarily what orthodox history would have us believe. Orthodox history rarely equals the truth, so historical revision has nothing to do with anti-semitism, or hatred of Jews. It is however all about uncovering the truth, and correcting erroneous versions of history. In this present era of universal deceit, this is a win-win situation for everyone. The Zionist practice of throwing people in jail, as well as hurling slander, and ridicule, at those who place the truth, over orthodox views of the Holocaust, is an example of the blind hatred of those who place their beliefs over the truth!

Anonymous said...

I think there should be a conference in Iran about Muhammad.
Did he actually exist? Was he a prophet? Did he have a direct connection to G-d?

Do we have any witnesses that Muhammad actually existed?

Anonymous said...

it is just ignorance or a result of a propagandistic education. if some of you deny the holocaust than they could even deny the complete third reich. there are so many proves that the holocaust happened... ist just a shame for mankind that there is a conference and so many people who don't want to see that this is just a big fake, even critics don't get a visa like chaled machmid.

ET said...

Anonymous denier, Bigots and racists seem to hide behind free speech. It's just a big game for people like you.

And you are wrong, wrong, wrong about your made-up insistence that the holocaust only exists in the stories of survivors. The Nazis themselves recorded their own actions. They are detailed and documented for the whole world to study.

Anonymous said...

ANYONE WHO IS DENYING HOLOCAUST DID NOT HAPPEN...MUST BE SICK IN THEIR MIND. ALSO UNEDUCATED. GO READ THE BOOK HITLER WROTE CALLED mIEN kAUMP,
IT MENTIONED FINAL SOLUTION. WHICH MEANS DESTRUCTION JEWS AND DISABLED PEOPLE.

IF IRANIAN PRESIDENT HAD SAID MOHAMED WAS A JEW YOU WOULD BELIEVE HIM TOO??

shlemazl said...

Anonymous denier seems to believe that denial is illegal in the west. That is not actually the case for the vast majority of western countries. As far as I know it is only illegal in Germany, Austria and France for obvious historic reasons. It is perfectly legal elsewhere, including the US.

Deniers may be subjected to "insults and ridicule". So they should be as any stupid hater. After all we DO have freedom of speech.

All your denial claims have been long since debunked:

http://www.nizkor.org/

That was possible to do because we do have freedom of speech. Note that the Iranian "Holocaust" conference was attended EXCLUSIVELY by deniers, anti-Semites and "anti-Zionists".

Anonymous said...

Those of us who don't share your blind belief in the "holocaust", don't deny it, as one can't deny an event that never took place! What we do is refuse to allow such a lie ,to become more important than the truth!

Widespread ignorance about the true history of WWII, as well as incessant Holocaust propaganda and brainwashing from Hollywood, and the mainstream media, gives the Holocaust narrative the appearance of indisputable truth! Once the Holocaust is subjected to unbiased scrutiny however, it is found to have no basis in fact whatsoever!

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